GideonsSoldiers.com had the opportunity to speak with David Moore, the creator and producer of our favorite podcast, Another Not Guilty. Here’s what he had to say.
You’re the creator of Another Not Guilty Podcast, tell us a little bit about yourself.
I always wanted to be a stand-up comic because I enjoyed listening to the comic attack societal norms with the truth while making people laugh. However, I became a lawyer instead (long story). While in law school I discovered the public defender’s office; learned that the police lie, prosecutors cheat, and judges don’t care.
I wanted to attack and expose the criminal justice system for what it really is through jury trials and stand-up comedy.
While being a public defender I found that the “not guilty” story shared by colleagues or myself were always the most entertaining stories. So I thought a podcast would be a great way to capture these great stories.
When did you decide to pursue the glamorous life of a public defender?
I fell in love with the public defender’s office while clerking there in law school. For the first time in my legal career I felt like I fit in. I really enjoyed working for the deputy public defenders I was assigned to. I looked up to them and wanted to be like them.
I also fell in love with the idea of fighting the beast that is the criminal justice system, exposing its’ lies in front of a jury, free of charge to the client.
I also thought that being a public defender would give me a unique perspective to talk about on stage as a stand-up comic.
How did you come up with the idea of doing a Another Not Guilty podcast?
Well the “Not Guilty” is just a fun and entertaining thing to talk about, it really is! And public defenders tend to be eccentric quirky people that are really good at telling stories. And I’ve always found that listening to others or sharing my own “Not Guilty” stories with colleagues to be the most entertaining and special moments in the office, especially during happy hours.
The idea for the podcast came while doing stand-up comedy and noticing that a lot of comedians had podcast, so I thought I could do a podcast with public defenders telling the story of the “Not Guilty” which would be a great way to entertain the public while also educating them on the daily injustices our clients endure.
Who is your audience? Is Another Not Guilty a podcast just for public defenders?
Well definitely public defenders, a few DAs I know, law students, social justice warriors, and true crime fans. But definitely other public defenders all over the country. They contact me the most to let me know how much they appreciate the podcast. (And I love hearing from them!)
How many episodes have you produced so far?
I think we’re close to 50 episodes by now. We reached over 100,000 downloads, in over 50 countries.
If our readers wanted to listen to Another Not Guilty what episode would you tell them to start with?
The season finale of season 1 is pretty good: “Even Atomic Lies Won’t Kill A Cop Roach”. It’s about a cop who framed a client for murder. The public defender in the episode is one of the most creative trial lawyers I’ve come across and her trials skill are on full display in this one.
Maybe the answer to this question is the same, but what is your favorite episode of Another Not Guilty?
Season 2, episode 15, “Psych Meds & Reefer & Beer, Oh My!” Is probably my favorite. It’s about a DUI trial that was dismissed in the middle because the prosecutor failed to turn over exculpatory evidence.
I think it has a lot of elements that make a great episode: 1) The public defender is hilarious, 2) The public defender’s trial skills are on full display, 3) The public defender did a great job telling the story, 4) The hosts and the guests had a great rapport, 5) the social banter between the guests and hosts was great, 6) the story did a great job highlighting the bullshit that comes from prosecutors, 7) shadiness was exposed during the trial, 8) the editing was great, 9) the opening excerpts in the song are pretty good, too, 10) oh, and my wife did an excellent job coming up with the title for the episode.
The most recent episode “Miscarriage of Justice” from season 3 which is a 2 part episode is also pretty good; a nice not guilty on a 2nd degree murder charge. What I like about this episode is that the public defender did a great job of digesting and going through all the medical evidence and becoming an expert himself. Also we had as a guest an actual juror from the trial, so we get to hear about what actually happened during jury deliberations.
You’ve been doing this for over a decade, so let’s get out some words of wisdom for our readers; what advice would you give to a law student interested in a career in public defense?
Being a public defender is a really rewarding career choice. The highs are really high and the lows can be really low sometimes. Remember that your mental and physical health are important. Always take time out to take care of yourself. Don’t bring work home unless you are in trial.
What would you say is the greatest challenge in doing this work?
Being in tune with each client everyday. We get so busy and have to multi-task all the time. It’s important to be organized and make sure that each of your client’s knows they have your undivided attention.
Also being abrasive on a daily basis is difficult. It’s our job to slow the machine down which makes us have to be confrontational.
And not to let the job become business as usual. Being part of a machine that sends people to prison should never get easy.
This job takes a toll on the soul. Do you have any tips for how to deal with secondary trauma and compassion fatigue for public defenders?
I might have answered this above, but take time off a few times a year. Take a few vacations and weeks off every year.
Also don’t ever feel responsible for the horrible things that happen to our clients. We do everything we can for our clients but we can’t always control the outcome; don’t ever personalize the results. The machine is designed for you to lose and it is designed to send people to prison. You can’t prevent that from happening. It is going to happen. That’s why public defenders are amazing lawyers and people (overall) and that is why these ‘Not Guilty’ episodes are so compelling!
I understand that the L.A. County Public Defender is unionized. How long have you folks been organized for?
We’re in our second year. Nikhil Ramnaney, who is my main co-host in the first season, is our union President.
Why do you support public defenders organizing a union?
Because the machine will try to pinch and squeeze you to save a buck.
Going back to Another Not Guilty, how do you choose your stories?
The stories choose us. I’ll interview any public defender with a story. All ‘Not Guilty’ stories are entertaining the stakes are high in every trial. Also the stories are best told soon after the verdict because that is when the defender is most passionate about the case and can recall the most details.
The “Not Guilty” is a great story because what was supposed to happen (“Guilty”) didn’t. The system is supposed to work, prosecutors are supposed to seek truth, judges are supposed to be fair and impartial, the police are supposed to get the bad guy, but those are lies which get exposed in each not guilty story.
