Michigan Law School is doing some groundbreaking work. With the leadership of Professor Eve Primus, the Yale Kamisar Collegiate Professor of Law, Michigan Law School boasts the only Public Defender Training Institute in the country.
I’ve said it before, and I will say it again, clinics are key, but this is a whole new level!
GideonsSoldiers.com had the opportunity to speak with Professor Primus, founder of the MDefenders group and Public Defender Training Institute for aspiring public defenders. Here’s what she had to say.
Can you tell us about your legal background a bit?
Before law school, I worked as a criminal investigator for the Public Defender Service in Washington, D.C. I went to law school knowing that I wanted to be a public defender.
After graduating from Michigan Law School, I clerked for Judge Stephen Reinhardt on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. I then joined the Maryland Office of the Public Defender where I worked as a trial attorney and then as an appellate defender before joining the Michigan Law School faculty.
What initially brought you to PDS to become an investigator?
I knew from a young age that I wanted to be a public defender. The Washington D.C. Public Defender Service had a great reputation. I thought working as an investigator would open my eyes to the ways that over-policed communities are treated and make me a better public defender. It was an invaluable experience.
My time at PDS taught me not to take the prosecution’s version of the facts for granted. I learned the importance of developing real partnerships with clients and saw firsthand how much impact defenders can have. I also learned how critically important the thorough investigation of a client’s case is in practice.
What advice do you have for new law students who are not sure if public defense is the right career for them?
If public defense interests you, I would recommend that you give it a try. Spend a summer or part of a semester volunteering in a public defender’s office during law school or enroll in a public defense clinic at your law school.
If the work speaks to you, you will know pretty fast. And if it turns out that this is not the right fit for you, you will still have gotten some invaluable litigation skills that will serve you well in any other legal job that you pursue.
What drove you to become a professor at Michigan Law School?
The students.
When the Dean of Michigan Law reached out to ask me if I wanted to teach, I honestly did not know what to expect. I figured that I would teach for a few semesters and then return to the public defense world. But I really loved introducing students to the world of criminal procedure and to indigent defense in particular.
Let’s talk about your work at the University of Michigan Law School. You teach a number of courses, but you also do a lot of work with students who want to become public defenders. Can you us a little bit about MDefenders and the Public Defender Training Institute?
MDefenders is an organization that I started with some other faculty members here who have public defense backgrounds. It is designed to help current law students figure out if public defense is the right career path for them.
We provide a nurturing and supportive community for aspiring public defenders, teach them skills to help them succeed as public defenders, connect them with University of Michigan alumni who are doing public defense work,and provide them with other helpful resources.
The Public Defender Training Institute is an intensive immersion into the world of indigent defense. It is taught by University of Michigan Law School faculty who are current and/or former public defenders (aided by MDefenders alumni who currently work as public defenders).
The Institute inspires students to understand what calls people to do this kind of work. The Institute trains students to be excellent, client-centered, zealous advocates for their clients; gives them skills to avoid burnout and sustain themselves in a public defense career; introduces them to a community of like-minded students and future defender colleagues.
And of course, the Institute teaches students how to raise the level of representation wherever they go and effectuate systematic and individualized change for their clients.
The Institute is a four-credit program spanning two semesters and kicks off with a three-day intensive retreat at the law school in the fall. After the retreat, participants meet regularly throughout the year to continue their training.
Students enrolled in the Institute learn about
- the role of the public defender;
- different kinds of public defender work;
- how public defenders differ from prosecutors and private defense attorneys;
- how to handle the challenges that public defenders face (including excessive caseloads, secondary trauma, and ethical issues);
- effective pre-trial preparation including skills related to client interviewing, investigation, taking witness statements, obtaining discovery, storytelling and persuasion, preliminary hearings, and the development of a defense theory of the case;
- plea bargaining theory and techniques;
- the rules of evidence;
- motions practice;
- jury selection;
- trial advocacy (openings, direct examinations, cross examinations, closings, and sentencing hearings); and,
- how to incorporate social science into their advocacy.
Why did you create the MDefenders Public Defender Training Institute at the University of Michigan Law School?
Public defender offices are notoriously underfunded and overworked. In some jurisdictions, this means that there is little time and funding available to devote to entry-level attorney training. I wanted to provide a robust training program for future defenders so my students would feel comfortable and ready to go anywhere in the country and do this kind of work.
It is hard to learn how to be a public defender when you are simultaneously faced with an avalanche of cases. To the extent that my students can learn the skills they need in advance, it is one less thing they need to do when they start and will free them to do more for their clients.
I also know that burnout is a huge problem in indigent defense, and I wanted to encourage aspiring public defenders to begin thinking about work-life balance now and given them tools to implement self-care strategies now to avoid burnout later.
Finally, I hope that the Training Institute opens my students’ eyes to the power that public defenders have to effectuate change for poor communities.
I want my students to be kick-ass public defenders who are zealous, client-centered fighters, but I also want them to be leaders who are equipped with the necessary tools to not just do triage but also raise the level of representation wherever they go.
How many students are able to join the MDefenders Public Defender Training Institute?
Any student at Michigan Law who is interested in learning more about indigent defense is invited to come to MDefenders meetings and events. Any student can come and watch the Training Institute.
MDefenders who are 2L and 3L students can enroll in the Institute. There are eighteen 2L and 3L students in the Institute this year and a few more who audit the sessions.
Are you aware of anything else like the MDefenders Public Defender Training Institute in other U.S. law schools?
I think there are many law schools that have great clinical programs, but I don’t know of any law school that has an intensive immersion and training program for aspiring public defenders like the MDefenders program and the Public Defender Training Institute.
How do we change that?
I have already had conversations with some faculty who have defender backgrounds at other schools who are interested in what I am doing with MDefenders. I would love to see more training programs like this at other law schools, and I’d be happy to talk to any faculty or administrators at other law schools who are interested in doing something like this.
Outside of MDefenders, can you speak to the importance of criminal clinics for law students aspiring to become public defenders?
I think clinics are critically important for aspiring public defenders, because they are your only opportunity in law school to learn what it is like to represent an actual person and to feel the weight of that responsibility. Clinics are a wonderful training ground for learning what it is like to be a lawyer.
What types of clinics are available to students at the University of Michigan Law School?
Michigan has a large variety of clinics for aspiring public defenders. At the state trial level, we have the civil-criminal litigation clinic as well as the juvenile justice clinic. There is also a criminal appellate practice clinic for students interested in seeing what state-level criminal appellate work is like.
Federally, we have a federal appellate litigation clinic that handles appellate and post-conviction work in the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. And the Michigan Innocence clinic takes cases at postconviction stages to raise claims of factual innocence.
We also have clinics focused on child advocacy, advocacy for veterans, unemployment insurance advocacy, and advocacy for victims of human trafficking.
There are five current or former public defenders on the clinical faculty at Michigan Law School.
Do you ever miss being a public defender?
All the time. It is a part of my soul. Maybe for that reason, I still represent indigent defendants.
I work as a special assistant defender for the Michigan State Appellate Defender Office, and I also do pro bono habeas work. It isn’t the same as being a line defender, but it is something. I like to think that I am helping more indigent defendants by sending an army of smart, dedicated, and well-trained fighters out into the trenches.
How can students and other law schools learn more about MDefenders?
They can go to our website at https://www.law.umich.edu/mdefenders/Pages/default.aspx or email me at ebrensik@umich.edu.
